Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

I just found this link:

http://www.dbcpyrotechnics.com/servl...MMO/Categories

Under what circumstances would anyone want to have less-than-lethal ammo other than riot control?

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

I thought about this. I could see it being used for the first shot, to let the guy know you aren't messing around. Also if you are paranoid about your gun going off and not wanting to blow your own head off.

From what I have heard it doesn't cycle after the first shot though. Which immediately turned me off about the whole concept.

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

Ok, so you fire one of your duds at a guy. He thinks he is fighting for his life now, so he pulls out his piece and fires a REAL bullet at you. And he can't be prosecuted because it was self defense.

What, did you expect something else to happen?

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Shoot to kill......

Sure....you were just shooting to stop the threat and it resulted in death.....

When the gun comes out you better be ready to kill......otherwise you may be killed by simply drawing your gun.

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I don't understand this less than lethal mentality.. If you want less than lethal you have no business owning a gun, period.. As ruprick said if your going to shoot someone you better plan on killing the guy... You think that if you wound or scare a guy he is not going to come back for revenge full well knowing you don't have the guts to really pull the trigger? Think about it...

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i used to fire this type of stuff (and frnagible rounds) when i had an indoor range in my basement in south dakota. it's great for indoor target use, no chance of richocets.

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I think the explanation of the product is silly. If you think the guy was dangerous before you pulled out your gun, see how dangerous he is after you wound him. Simply, if you're going to hit someone, make sure he doesn't get back up.

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Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

Only if the person wanted to piss off their target & get smacked (or worse).

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There is a difference between less-than-lethal and nonlethal. It's called "less-than-lethal" because it can still kill, it's just not as likely to do so.

I'm not sure about the law, but I'd be very wary about any less-than-lethal weapons as it might qualify as "deadly force" under your state laws in which case the only time you'd be lawfully allowed to use it in situations where you'd lawfully be allowed to shoot them with a real gun.

Not sure about that but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case under some states' laws.

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

There example of the the lawsuit thing made a bit of sense, but it makes more sense to follow the addendum: If you have to shoot, shoot to kill.

Now, whos to say you dont pop the guy one or two, he down and out(no longer a threat...dead.) Now you're waiting 15 or so minutes for the police to arrive. Pull out one of them thar' less than lethals, pop one at your wall or something. Cops show up
"hey, i used this rubber bullet, I tried not to kill him, but I missed(or I hit him and he wasnt detered)."

Might work......Though I dont advocate commiting perjury......

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

When I read the title I thought this was going to be an argument about .38 and 9mm not being enough.

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

LOL!!! I only carry 230 Grain +P hollowpoints in my 45.

If I am going to pull my pistol, that means I want you dead!!!!

What if the guy is wearing a leather jacket or several layers of clothing???
UR F*CKED!!!

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

...................

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

Depending on your state, if someone breaks in, armed or unarmed, you have the right to use deadly force. If you are using deadly force(a gun is deadly force), you might as well do it right and use it. Here in KY, the laws changed a few years ago to say that if someone breaks in, it is assumed your life is in danger, and you are allowed to protect your life by deadly force. If you shoot some teenager unarmed in the dark breaking into your house, so be it, you are still justified.

You used to have to defend your actions, in other words, you had to show that your life was in danger. Not any more, and it is a good thing.

Shoot to survive. Don't let them live to make a lie and sue you. It happens too much, they survive and the court process takes years and financially drains you.

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

Less lethal? Taze him. While he's down, slit his throat....if you've got the balls.

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

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"Less than lethal" ammo? Why not just use a baseball bat?

Unless you're a cop, you will be charged with assault with a deadly weapon for using "less than lethal" ammunition. You can't deploy deadly force ("less than lethal" is still potential deadly force) unless you are facing deadly force. Use of "less than lethal" is prima facie evidence to the courts that you did not fear for your life. If you "just wanted to scare them" then you have the hike of your life proving you felt in fear for your life.

Never draw it unless you need to kill someone...and I mean "need," as in, they are going to kill you - imminent, unavoidable death or great bodily harm is looking at you.

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People like Massad Ayoob would say it should never be used by a civilian. I don't trust cops, but the man speaks true on this topic.

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

Say Hello to Big Tyrone, your new boyfriend.

"I have nothing to say" and "I wish to speak with an attorney" are the only sane responses to the cops.

And when you are in court, the strategy is: "the perpetrator entered my home, I feared that he was going to kill me, so I did what I felt I had to do for my own personal protection." NEVER EVER EVER EVER (!!!) say "I didn't want to kill him" or any other mitigating excuses. "Yes, I killed him, and I was justified to do so" is the only correct line of thought and word.

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

One caveat, which you may not (for good, honorable reasons) care about, is whether your choice of caliber & ammunition greatly exceed what local law enforcement uses. Most cops carry .40 and above with Speer GD or similar JHPs, so you're probably OK, but keep in mind that punk lawyers have and will again complain that there was "premeditation" when one uses effective manstopper ammunition, especially when it is significantly more powerful than local cops use. This risk diminishes or vanishes if the ammo you use is similar or exact to what your PD or SD uses.

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

People desiring a bullet for either purpose shouldn't be carrying a weapon. I do think it's neat that you assume you'll get a second shot after yer dummy round :)

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

I should clear my (not so) good name here ;)

What I made reference to was the description on the website, where it said you *COULD* load your first round with the non lethal stuff, shoot the guy, then follow up with real ammo if he wasnt detered as a means to protect yourself from litigation by saying "Loo,, i tried NOT to kill him."

I am of the mindset that you pull your gun, you better be ready to pull that trigger and do so, as that is what the law says. I live in florida, we have very clear laws on the matter.

I was just making a passive sarcastic remark. My .45's are loaded with Corbon hollow points, my shotguns are fed 9 pellet 00 buck. I've got two women and a little girl living in my house, I dont play around. But in some states, that would all be considered illegal, so I was just making a remark on the article that was linked...thats all....

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This is true and we see it all the time with 10mm ammo used in self defence. The prosecution almost always rails about how the 10mm hand gun round is grossly overpowered and that its simply unecessary and the person firing it wanted to just Rambo people and blah blah blah.

Nevermind the fact that the 10mm was almost the choice for the FBI and LEO until they cut it in half and made the .40 cal(10mm short)cause small hand LEO's couldnt hold the guns properly.

I think sticking with a 9mm, .40 or .45 is eveyrones best bet to avoid un warranted BS from the DA and also retain good ammo availability before or after SHTF :tongue_ma:

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Hmmm has anyone actually been convicted for an otherwise lawful defense using a 10mm?

That seems kind of odd, a shotgun is much worse.

I may have to get a .40 s&w barrel for mine.

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

Yes, they have. But please excuse my lack of links, as I am very inept at this internet searching thing.

The most recent I can think of is the guy that was out hiking and said that there was some one hanging around he car when he came back from his remote area jog. The strangers two dogs apparently came after the guy, the guy fired a warning shot with his 10mm and scared the dogs. The stranger, thinking the dogs were shot, rushed the guy and the jogger put 3 rounds of 10mm into the attacker.

Thats his account of it; it was posted here not too long ago. But thats not the important part, the important part was the DA going after the shooter like mad because he was carrying a 10mm which was considered 'cruel and unusual, meant to inflict pain and death' and all the non sense.

The guy, who had 3 or 4 kids at home, got 10 years in jail for killing a known mental unstable, multiple time violent offender.

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Thank God I live in Florida! 10mm for self defense is a-ok!!!

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The attacker is the "victim" and the victim is the "attacker"

Shyt like that gets me mad.........REAL MAD.

Re: Less-than-lethal pistol ammo
 

Wow... you know, I read that post above and it didn't even didn't occur to me that those were not the words to use. This forum is definitely a good place to learn things.